Veröffentlichung Kritzerland: POLTERGEIST II: THE OTHER SIDE - Jerry Goldsmith

[Marcus Stöhr]

Demnächst von Kritzerland: POLTERGEIST II: THE OTHER SIDE (Komplett & Remastered) von Jerry Goldsmith:
 

And yes, it's the complete (at long last!) Poltergeist II. We've gone back to the original three-track mixes so we didn't have to deal with the previous CDs various EQs, none of which were to my liking and the last of which is mastered so hot as to defy credulity. The four missing short cues are there. No alternates, but we are including bonus tracks of two cues that appear without choir in the film (they were scored to have the choir and appear that way in the main program - but we have the instrumental-only versions in the bonus section) along with some other odds and ends that are fun. Very excited about this one and yes, it's more than 1000 and less than 2000 - given it's prior release history I wasn't comfortable with 2000, whereas I was with 1500, which I think will move just fine. At 2000 I'd have to read the endless litany of "I'm fine with the Varese" - you know what I mean.

James Nelson and I have spent a LOT of time on the phone talking about this release and its sound - the original mixes are so clean-sounding and detailed with wonderful dynamic range and all that's lost with that extra-hot mastering - plus they added so much washy reverb to the choir (it needed some but boy did they go to extremes) that it actually created a slap-back effect and then also caused the orchestra to have that extra verb washed over it. When I heard the first test track of our new release my ears were extremely happy

Quelle: FSM Forum

[peter-anselm]

Erst Miracle worker, nu Poltergeist 2.......da war Kimmel mit seinen letzten VÖs auf einem deutlich besseren Weg. PG 2 gibt es doch bereits in Deluxe Ausführung, darüber hinaus die limitierte Intrada Fassung. Muß ich nicht verstehen....ach ja improved Sound (die vorangegangenen Releases waren ja allesamt unhörbar  ) insofern ist die Anschaffung dieser CD "alternativlos"

[Dakota]

Erst Miracle worker, nu Poltergeist 2.......da war Kimmel mit seinen letzten VÖs auf einem deutlich besseren Weg. PG 2 gibt es doch bereits in Deluxe Ausführung, darüber hinaus die limitierte Intrada Fassung. Muß ich nicht verstehen....ach ja improved Sound (die vorangegangenen Releases waren ja allesamt unhörbar ) insofern ist die Anschaffung dieser CD "alternativlos"

Naja, da gibt's schlimmeres;) mal abwarten wie sich das entwickelt. Glaube aber kaum, dass Kritzerland sich so positionieren wird wie LaLa Land...))))

[sami]

Und selbst wenn: wie so viele andere Releases muss ich es ja nicht kaufen...den Kopf schütteln kann ich schon, aber der Mann muss wahrscheinlich auch eine Stromrechnung zahlen.

[peter-anselm]

Und selbst wenn: wie so viele andere Releases muss ich es ja nicht kaufen...den Kopf schütteln kann ich schon, aber der Mann muss wahrscheinlich auch eine Stromrechnung zahlen.

Dann dürfte ein Re-Release von Miracle worker aber der falsche Weg sein.

[Csongor]

 

we are including bonus tracks of two cues that appear without choir in the film

 

Welche Version hatten wir wohl bei den besagten 2 Tracks auf der Deluxe-Varese CD drauf? Die mit oder ohne Chor, wenn diese Stücke im Film ohne Chor vorkamen?

 

Die Chorstellen gefallen mir sehr gut, was mir bei diesem Score nicht gefällt sind diese furchtbaren Synth-Sounds. Aber das ist Geschmackssache ... Bleibe dieser Veröffentlichung vorerst neutral gegenüber ... mal sehen was da wirklich daher kommt.

[ronin1975]

das waren die doch mit Chor...

 

der Chor war immer geil in dem Score... ich versteh die zweite Textzeile nicht so ganz God lives in his holy temple und dann? earthly thoughts be silent now? oder was singen die da?

 

die Synths sind etwas dick, aber trotzdem find ich das einen der besten Scores von Jerry überhaupt. Hat echt mächtig wumms, auch wenn der Mix im Film nicht so geil ist... ne SE von dem Film wär mal nett, schöne Monsterdesigns von Giger und so. Fand der Film hatte einige tolle Effekt-und Gruselszenen, insgesamt aber eine etwas zerfahrene Story und find das immer doof, wenn man, weil man muss das Publikum ja mal erschrecken, unmotivierte Alptraumszenen eingebaut werden oder überhaupt einfach so mal Effekte drin sind (wo die Geister zum Beispiel mal aufs Haus zulaufen... wird weder vorher noch hinterher irgendwie motiviert lol).

 

ach ja die 80er...

[sami]

Der Film war aber wohl Opfer heftiger Schnittattacken und der Darsteller des Kane verstarb auch vor Abschluss der Dreharbeiten. Insofern ist das Mittelmaß hier noch produktionsbedingt entschuldbar. Irgendwo hab ich mal gelesen, dass Goldsmith heinen vollorchestralen Score wollte, und es zur Abwechslung mal die Produzenten waren, die Synthesizer einforderten - wahrscheinlich wäre der Score deutlich angesehener heute, wenn er ohne den Yamaha-Schnickschnack ausgekommen wäre.

[Trekfan]

Jedenfalls ist es keine große Überraschung, dass Kimmel, obwohl er ursprünglich keine Goldsmiths auf Kritzerland machen wollte, für den zweiten schon länger angekündigten Goldsmith wieder bei MGM/UA fischt. Das ist für ihn der Weg des geringsten Widerstandes. Das wohl lizensierfreudigste Studio derzeit, wenn man sieht, welche Labels mittlerweile deren Titel rausbringen.

[Poldi]

Die Chorstellen gefallen mir sehr gut, was mir bei diesem Score nicht gefällt sind diese furchtbaren Synth-Sounds. Aber das ist Geschmackssache ... Bleibe dieser Veröffentlichung vorerst neutral gegenüber ... mal sehen was da wirklich daher kommt.

Auf LP klingen die Synth Sounds gar nicht schlecht und fügen sich recht harmonisch ins klangliche Gesamtbild ein. Bei allgemeiner Synthie Allergie hilft das natürlich nicht. So oder so: Auf den CDs stehen die Synthies etwas ab, klingt daher nicht so gut (für meine Ohren).

Daher bin ich tatsächlich auf den Klang der Kritzerland gespannt, wenn die da am Master noch was drehen wollen.

[Csongor]

Ich finde zB, dass sich die Synth-Effekte bei STAR TREK INSURRECTION bei der Expanded Version auch deutlich besser in den orchestralen Teil einfügen, als bei der ersten Veröffentlichung.

das waren die doch mit Chor...

 

Also haben wir die zwei Stücke bereits mit Chor auf der Varese-CD wenn ich das richtig verstehe.

Am schlimmsten ist der Anfang von POLTERGEIST II ... wenn da bloß eine Flöte verwendet worden wäre.

[Gast]

Sollte jemand die alte 30 minütige Varèse-CD (US-Pressung, VCD 47266, nicht die Deluxe-Auflage) in gutem Zustand haben, evt. sogar in einer Barcode-losen Auflage, sich davon trennen und für EUR 10,-- Zuzahlung im Gegenzug die neue Kritzerland-Doppel-CD erhalten wollen: PN bis Sonntagabend an mich. Wir machen einen Deal. 

[sami]

Ach, Hilde...

[peter-anselm]

Ach, Hilde...

 

Ich versteh den Mann......VCD 47266, das ist Buchstabenerotik pur (manufactured by Victor Musical Industries,Tokyo). Und Hilde hat ja recht: son Barcode macht das ganze Layout kaputt weils immer asymmetrisch sitzt und ohnehin null Information bietet

 

Edit: Beispiel mit und ohne Code. Urteilt selber

[Gast]

Jenau. Und ich weiß, dass es die Dinger für ab €7 bei Amazon gibt. Ist ein Upgrade-Angebot für jemanden aus dem Board. Wenn sich keiner meldet, nimmt niemand schaden.

[Sebastian Schwittay]

Fand den Klang der Varèse-Deluxe immer sehr annehmbar. Weiß nicht, ob ich diese Upgrade nun unbedingt brauche - wohl eher nicht.

[Gast]

Ich glaube das Highlight an der neuen CD ist der Zickenkrieg im Intrada-Board.

 

Doug:

 

One big thing to keep in mind, and this we know from being the original label to finance the project back in 1986. The three-channel mixes for Poltergeist II were NOT designed for true stereo listening but made for the Dolby four-channel film prints. On this title, the center channel was mixed specifically with balancing underneath dialog. As such, instruments were positioned in that region separately from where they were in the proper stereo listening mixes. Re-mastering these mixes can address lots of audio issues for today's marketplace BUT can not alter the intentions of them being made to accommodate dialog in Dolby presentations. We already went through all of this with both Goldsmith and Bruce Botnick when we made the original album, one of the first digital soundtracks to hit the then-new CD marketplace, and again when we put together our first expanded release. Goldsmith specifically stated the mixes for the film presentations altered the violas, woodwinds, percussion and some of the electronics considerably and said they were not designed for listening apart from the dialog because they would phase improperly.

While there is warmth to the analog three-channel elements, the instrumental positioning is out of kilter with the actual two-track digital mixes Botnick created. Both he and Goldsmith preferred the digital two-track sources (Sony PCM format) because they reflected what the orchestra spread was intended to be. Though it was then state-of-the-art, the Poltergeist II recording has never been my favorite in terms of audio, and hot and brittle is a good way to describe the digital sources. However, the correct stereo imaging and spread of the true stereo mixes is certainly an important consideration and trumps warmth for me.

If the 1/2" three-channel tapes were all that survived, using them would be a necessity. But the true stereo PCM masters do exist. When we decided to delete the release, we sent the masters to Varese so they could do their own version.

I'll look forward to this upcoming new version and probably enjoy it just fine. Bruce Kimmel can work wonders with the audio on his albums. But that said, my personal preference will still be the true stereo mixes Goldsmith and Botnick created.
--Doug

 

 

Bruce:

 

Let me be as nice as I can be here and believe me, I'm biting my tongue so hard that it's bleeding First of all, Goldsmith did the three-channel mixdowns and they sound AMAZING and there is nothing funky or incorrect about the orchestra placement and they are, of course, true stereo, and I would posit that Mr. Fake has never even heard them. And yes, we chose the half-inch analogue because the digital sounds like crap. I had no interest whatsoever in replicating any of the previous releases - why would I? We have the digital two-track mixes and I don't need them from the PCM because I have - wait for it - the Intrada and the Varese releases and if I wanted to use them I would, but I don't so I'm not. Furthermore, the stereo mixes Goldsmith and Botnick created (mostly Botnick) don't really reflect the music as heard in the film, so there's that. Furthermore, there is more orchestral detail on the half-inches and one hears more of certain bits of orchestration and let me tell you I'm all for that. Furthermore, there is so much awful reverb wash on the choir that it affects the orchestra, which is already plenty wet in the room and it all just becomes mush, IMO. But, if anyone is concerned by all means keep the shorter Intrada version - I'm afraid that I'd have to disagree that the material added to the Varese is inconsequential and I'd further disagree that even the four short new tracks we have are inconsequential, and then to get the film versions of the two cues that play without choir in the film as bonus stuff, plus some other fun bonus stuff, including one alternate we found - well, it's two CDs and at 19.98 if this were being released by someone else, say Intrada, I'd snap it up instantly. In fact, my feeling is that if this were being released by Intrada they'd be trumpeting all the extras and lambasting Varese for not making it complete in the first place.

Now, if we're going to go down this road, which is a road that's not really necessary, maybe we should discuss Dressed to Kill. Shall we do that? I'm happy to oblige and go into great detail

I now return you to Intradaland.

Love and kisses,
bk

 

 

Doug:

 

Sorry, Bruce, but I have heard the 1/2" masters and had a two-track mix made from them by Bruce Botnick way back in 1986. I was also present at Capitol when Bruce and Jerry were creating our album master and had ample opportunity to talk about the recording and whether we wanted to create totally different masters for each of the LP, cassette and then-new CD formats. We left that decision up to them because they were the artists who knew what they wanted, we were just happy to be involved. FACT: Botnick made the three-channel mixes for the FILM, with little input from Goldsmith, and they were never intended for subsequent stereo albums. Whatever you choose to do with the 1/2" analog film masters is your privilege. It is not the choice Goldsmith or Botnick made, however.

You've been tossing shots across my bow now for some time: whining about our release date on Bound For Glory, our release of Up being the same as the download, even the vernacular of my own personal capsules on our website for goodness sakes! Recently you jumped on my comments regarding audio processing viewpoints especially with regards to On The Waterfront.

And Dressed To Kill? You brought that one up in your comments about reverb some time ago, even though you failed to take into consideration that the reverb you so cherished was NOT in fact Donaggio's engineering decision but one made by the mixer in the small A&R Recording Studios in New York where the unusually located recording sessions took place. That is, in fact, why the low brass disappeared in the final two-track mix much to Donaggio's disappointment, and a major reason we opted to locate and remix from the 2" 24-track masters. It was our creative decision and I will stand by it. You toss your opinions around like they were facts. But we have been working with these people for many years. In fact, did you speak to Pino regarding his "sound"? We did. And if you want to to hear his sound, try Mysteries Of The Black Jungle, The Barbarians (where we first spoke to him about that very topic), Don't Look Now, Der Mann Nebenen, and on and on. I can provide you with his contact info if you don't have it. Or you can agree with me that our differing opinions on his "sound" and noise reduction and reverb and everything else creative should simply remain differences in opinion. No more, no less.

The road you speak of is one you have been trying to goad me down for years. I personally just grew weary of it and fired back. Feel free to voice your opinions and criticize my efforts here to preserve and present to the public all this wonderful music. But if you just want to lob missiles at what we are doing here, I will take up the gauntlet... starting with Poltergeist II. I stand by the facts as I presented them.
--Doug

 

 

Bruce:

 

Well, Doug, the one thing we all learn, we who have labels, is that you ARE the Grand Poobah and are never wrong. Only you ARE completely wrong about the half-inch mixes I'm sorry to tell you. Every instrument is in EXACTLY the same place as on the two-track digital mixes, of course it's a true stereo mix, the synths are in EXACTLY the same places as the previous digital releases - the big difference, Mr. Poobah, is that the half-inches have beautiful dynamics, warmth and wonderful clarity, thanks to the beauty of analogue tape. The proof will be in the listening. I've been listening and comparing for days and there is no question what MY preference is, because it sounds wonderful to my ears. But just to hammer it home for you - and I'm sure you'll come back and want the last word - the orchestra placement and synth placement on the half-inch mixes is exactly the same as the digital mixes. James and I have listened and that's the way it is, much as it may not please you. And they are, I hate to tell you, Jerry's mixes.

I didn't begin this, Poobah, you did. It was unnecessary and I really have to call into question your assertion that you heard the half-inches, given that the information you posited about them and the orchestra in your initial post is completely incorrect. So, either you never heard them or your memory is failing or I have a different set of half-inches.

As to Pino, I'm glad you like what you did with the CD. You can dish out this stuff (about us, about other labels' work) but you don't like it when it comes back to you. In case you haven't noticed, I did several Pino scores, all of which he was thrilled with and all of which have the classic Pino sound - WET. When we got the original Italian mixes for Ordeal by Innocence and The Berlin Affair they were WET - and they were prepared by - wait for it - Pino Donaggio. But yes, we can agree to disagree and leave it at that. And just to correct you, I don't THINK I ever "whined" about Up being the same or not the same as some download because I don't even know what the HELL the download is. I have the original Pixar promo CD and I'm quite certain I made no comment on it or your release - if I'm wrong, apologies all around. Furthermore, as you well know, I have been a very vocal supporter of Intrada for many years. I have on only a handful of occasions made posts you don't like - that's hardly goading and if you came into this thread to sully our upcoming release simply for spite, you have failed on all counts. Sorry.

The folks who buy the new version of Poltergeist II, a score I love, I think will find it to be an improvement, sound-wise, and certainly the extra material is all wonderful and all worth having. I think we can leave it at that, don't you?

[Gast]

1. [on topic] mein obiges Upgrade-Angebot hat sich erledigt.

 

2. [off topic] @Petrus: Meine Gorky Park ohne Barcode ist cooler!

 

[sami]

Hat aber immernoch die grässlichen roten Rücken und Varéses Einheitstypo.

[Stempel]

Hat aber immernoch die grässlichen roten Rücken und Varéses Einheitstypo.

 

Nichts gegen die roten Rücken von Varese!

 

Die sind so auffällig das man einen Soundtrack in jeder Flohmarktkiste sofort erkennen kann.

Und wo einer ist....

 

[Gast]

Hat aber immernoch die grässlichen roten Rücken und Varéses Einheitstypo.

 

Wieso "immer noch"? Das wird sich nicht ändern, egal wie lange die CD im Regal steht. Wir reden hier von der Mitte der 80'er. Damals gab es noch Langweiligeres. Zum Beispiel einfache schwarze Schrift auf weißem Grund, auch bei großen Labels.

[peter-anselm]

1. [on topic] mein obiges Upgrade-Angebot hat sich erledigt.

 

2. [off topic] @Petrus: Meine Gorky Park ohne Barcode ist cooler!

 

gp.jpg

 

Sag ich doch!

[sami]

Aber auch schöneres:

 

 

[Gast]

1. Das sind LPs. Die Gorky Park-LP sah von hinten auch anders aus.

2. Wir werden erheblich off-topic.

[horner1980]

1. Das sind LPs. Die Gorky Park-LP sah von hinten auch anders aus.

2. Wir werden erheblich off-topic.

 

Ich stimme Dir in beiden Punkten zu.. besonders Punkt 2 ist mir gerade recht wichtig.. daher zurück zum zweiten Poltergeist